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Centum FY2022 - FY2026
Ericsson
#41 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2021 8:09:30 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,078
Location: NAIROBI
VituVingiSana wrote:
kawi254 wrote:
watesh wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Free parking for the first one hour at Two Rivers Mall has been removed.
0-2 hours is ksh.50


Monetizing that parking lot to the fullest


If you pay that Ksh 50/= via M-PESA it becomes 60/= because Nairobi City adds a 10/= levy.

Have been using the 1 hour free parking to shop at Carrefour to pick little stuff bread & milk..now the nearest supermarkets have become game as i am avoiding that 50/=.

Is the 10/- for CCN or 20% excise tax for Mobile Money?
Does CCN have jurisdiction over private parking? Sad

I know what you mean about paying for parking when buying small, small stuff. BTW, there was a time I stopped at a small shopping center in Kilifi to have a soda. They (county) wanted money for parking. I laughed and drove off. Siwezi lipa 50/- for parking to enjoy a 50/- soda.


I'm also wondering what the ksh.10 is for.
For me Parking fee is at most 1.5% the value of goods bought at a shopping mall.
Anything greater than that I look for alternatives
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
Ericsson
#42 Posted : Thursday, October 14, 2021 11:27:46 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,078
Location: NAIROBI
https://www.standardmedi...robi-dip-by-27-per-cent

Land and property prices in Nairobi and it's environs are self-correcting due to market forces with a report revealing a drop of upto 27%.

A recent Macro Strategy Report published by EFG Hermes, a financial service company, which analysed land prices in the high-end market segment, upper-middle and satellite towns found that the pricing was significantly lower in the first quarter of 2021 compared to the past four years.

It notes that prices of residential and commercial property in Nairobi’s satellite towns have dipped since quarter four of 2019. “Could this represent the early signs of a deeper correction in high-end property prices?” posed the report.

The report says the property market in the country is overvalued, noting that the Covid-19 pandemic has seen distressed properties sale for less than their initial valuation.

The survey notes that the current land prices in the high-end segment are significantly lower than their peak levels over the past four years. “Notably, Quarter One (Q1) of 2021 land prices in Runda were 27 per cent below their recent peaks in Q4 of 2017,” reads the report in part.

“In the middle-income segment, current land prices are also lower than their peak levels over the past four years, but not by as much as the high-end segment.”

Prices in Runda have dropped way below the initial prices in Q4 of 2014. The report notes that while current land prices in Parklands and Westlands have changed from their peak levels over the past four years, current land prices in Upper Hill - Nairobi’s most expensive suburb are 13 per cent below their peaks in Q4 2017.

“Donholm stands out within the other segment for being the only suburb that has continued to see its land prices materially appreciate since Q4 2017,” noted the survey.

The report says on the performance of suburb land prices in Nairobi, between Q4 2017 and Q1 of 2021 all have underperformed the Consumer Price Index (CPI) which is 20 per cent.

“This has to be concerning for the outlook of the property market in Nairobi’s suburbs,” it reads.

Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
Ericsson
#43 Posted : Thursday, November 11, 2021 1:29:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,078
Location: NAIROBI
https://www.kahawatungu....lled-centum-investment/

It's been circulating
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
My 2 cents
#44 Posted : Thursday, November 11, 2021 8:06:30 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/2/2010
Posts: 695
Does anyone know who their local bankers are? Which bank has loaned them money?
Ericsson
#45 Posted : Thursday, November 11, 2021 10:06:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,078
Location: NAIROBI
My 2 cents wrote:
Does anyone know who their local bankers are? Which bank has loaned them money?


Stanbic
NCBA
Co-operative bank
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
Angelica _ann
#46 Posted : Friday, November 12, 2021 9:31:47 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,874
Ericsson wrote:
https://www.kahawatungu.com/how-james-mworia-has-killed-centum-investment/

It's been circulating


Disgruntled former employees ama whistle blowers?

Anyway i identify with their sentiments, never understood reason for selling cash cows and investing/buying cash hogs and that coal plant that was bound to be controversial?

The valuations and revaluations yoy looked suspect and the debt levels......

Wish all those inside well!
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
VituVingiSana
#47 Posted : Friday, November 12, 2021 11:18:01 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 17,646
Location: Nairobi
Angelica _ann wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
https://www.kahawatungu.com/how-james-mworia-has-killed-centum-investment/

It's been circulating


Disgruntled former employees ama whistle blowers?

Anyway i identify with their sentiments, never understood reason for selling cash cows and investing/buying cash hogs and that coal plant that was bound to be controversial?

The valuations and revaluations yoy looked suspect and the debt levels......

Wish all those inside well!

- Disgruntled former employees
- Cash cows can/should be sold when someone wants to pay good money. Will you hold your Safcom shares no matter the price offered?
*Cash was also used to repay debt.
- If one (except politicians) knew what a bad investment was from the beginning, would they do so?
Things change. When the proposal was floated there were (and are) coal plants are being built in India, China and Japan.

Re/valuations are an issue for many firms. Some may be a result of the requirement to revalue assets considered "for sale" eg bonds and real estate. Banks have this going on with real estate and bonds.

Debt is something we need more clarity on. The good news is that 2 large bonds/loans were repaid since 2019.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
andrueastman
#48 Posted : Friday, November 12, 2021 12:54:58 PM
Rank: Hello


Joined: 2/12/2019
Posts: 2
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
https://www.kahawatungu.com/how-james-mworia-has-killed-centum-investment/

It's been circulating


Disgruntled former employees ama whistle blowers?

Anyway i identify with their sentiments, never understood reason for selling cash cows and investing/buying cash hogs and that coal plant that was bound to be controversial?

The valuations and revaluations yoy looked suspect and the debt levels......

Wish all those inside well!

- Disgruntled former employees
- Cash cows can/should be sold when someone wants to pay good money. Will you hold your Safcom shares no matter the price offered?
*Cash was also used to repay debt.
- If one (except politicians) knew what a bad investment was from the beginning, would they do so?
Things change. When the proposal was floated there were (and are) coal plants are being built in India, China and Japan.

Re/valuations are an issue for many firms. Some may be a result of the requirement to revalue assets considered "for sale" eg bonds and real estate. Banks have this going on with real estate and bonds.

Debt is something we need more clarity on. The good news is that 2 large bonds/loans were repaid since 2019.


I believe Amu Power was already completely written off last year (FY2020) and doesn't count on the balance sheet (PE portfolio). This can be confirmed from the last two annual reports.

https://citizen.digital/...losses-amu-power-305745/
watesh
#49 Posted : Friday, November 12, 2021 1:28:40 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/10/2014
Posts: 891
Location: Kenya
Ericsson wrote:
https://www.kahawatungu.com/how-james-mworia-has-killed-centum-investment/

It's been circulating


My main concern here is the debt esp at TRDL. However, Mworia said they are looking for a buyer to sell a chunk of the company to and use the proceeds to pay off the debt in it. The debt there has become a wild animal that can't be tamed easily

Debts at CentumRe, in my understanding, was to bridge the gap between selling, collection and construction. If selling or collection slows down, they may have to funnel cash from marketable securities to pay off the debt.
My 2 cents
#50 Posted : Friday, November 12, 2021 1:43:48 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/2/2010
Posts: 695
Ericsson wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
Does anyone know who their local bankers are? Which bank has loaned them money?


Stanbic
NCBA
Co-operative bank


Thanks. I see they have not borrowed from their own bank, Sidian.
Ericsson
#51 Posted : Friday, November 12, 2021 2:01:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,078
Location: NAIROBI
watesh wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
https://www.kahawatungu.com/how-james-mworia-has-killed-centum-investment/

It's been circulating


My main concern here is the debt esp at TRDL. However, Mworia said they are looking for a buyer to sell a chunk of the company to and use the proceeds to pay off the debt in it. The debt there has become a wild animal that can't be tamed easily

Debts at CentumRe, in my understanding, was to bridge the gap between selling, collection and construction. If selling or collection slows down, they may have to funnel cash from marketable securities to pay off the debt.


Which marketable securities are this.
If it's in the NSE quotable securities,Centum exited.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
Grand
#52 Posted : Friday, November 12, 2021 7:41:21 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 23
Well, good information but motives are suspect. The ex employees had to wait to be sacked to whistle blow, they were complicit and party to the huge bonuses shareholders complained about few years back. It is reassuring that they admit "The market cap of the company at the NSE of KES 12 BILLION is actually a true reflection of the company’s actual net asset value as opposed to the book NAV indicated in the company’s financials of KES 60 BILLION" that translates to a P/B ratio of 1 which is not bad.
VituVingiSana
#53 Posted : Friday, November 12, 2021 9:51:24 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 17,646
Location: Nairobi
andrueastman wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
https://www.kahawatungu.com/how-james-mworia-has-killed-centum-investment/

It's been circulating


Disgruntled former employees ama whistle blowers?

Anyway i identify with their sentiments, never understood reason for selling cash cows and investing/buying cash hogs and that coal plant that was bound to be controversial?

The valuations and revaluations yoy looked suspect and the debt levels......

Wish all those inside well!

- Disgruntled former employees
- Cash cows can/should be sold when someone wants to pay good money. Will you hold your Safcom shares no matter the price offered?
*Cash was also used to repay debt.
- If one (except politicians) knew what a bad investment was from the beginning, would they do so?
Things change. When the proposal was floated there were (and are) coal plants are being built in India, China and Japan.

Re/valuations are an issue for many firms. Some may be a result of the requirement to revalue assets considered "for sale" eg bonds and real estate. Banks have this going on with real estate and bonds.

Debt is something we need more clarity on. The good news is that 2 large bonds/loans were repaid since 2019.


I believe Amu Power was already completely written off last year (FY2020) and doesn't count on the balance sheet (PE portfolio). This can be confirmed from the last two annual reports.

https://citizen.digital/...osses-amu-power-305745/
Yes, I agree. In hindsight, it was a poor investment, but these happen. Someone who says they make "right" decisions all the time is likely a conman.

It is no longer a drag on the Balance Sheet after being provided for.

Akiira was also written down to a lower (not zero) value.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#54 Posted : Friday, November 12, 2021 9:53:27 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 17,646
Location: Nairobi
My 2 cents wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
Does anyone know who their local bankers are? Which bank has loaned them money?


Stanbic
NCBA
Co-operative bank


Thanks. I see they have not borrowed from their own bank, Sidian.

Sidian is a small bank + it would not be kosher to borrow from Sidian + Sidian can't match the rates offered by the big banks.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#55 Posted : Friday, November 12, 2021 9:58:15 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 17,646
Location: Nairobi
@watesh - Sales are key for any business and more so for real estate firms that hold inventory. CRE will have to release results by 31 Dec and I hope there is an investor presentation discussing sales.

Riverbank will be complete by Dec 2021. That means unsold units start costing Centum an "opportunity cost" as they remains empty or unsold. There may be a program to rent out the vacant units but that's not CRE's business model.

The realization process takes a minimum of 3 years in Kenya for such projects.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
My 2 cents
#56 Posted : Saturday, November 13, 2021 4:39:30 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/2/2010
Posts: 695
VituVingiSana wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
My 2 cents wrote:
Does anyone know who their local bankers are? Which bank has loaned them money?


Stanbic
NCBA
Co-operative bank


Thanks. I see they have not borrowed from their own bank, Sidian.

Sidian is a small bank + it would not be kosher to borrow from Sidian + Sidian can't match the rates offered by the big banks.


They should sell Sidian to Equity of KCB and pay down some of their debt.

Covid really threw a wrench to the borrow big and invest in Real Estate business model. Evergrange, Cytonn, Centum, Muraya's etc.
Angelica _ann
#57 Posted : Monday, November 15, 2021 10:45:01 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,874
We should also not forget that major (most/majoritysmile )deals at Centum was done under the guidance and direction of CK, which is no more. This will affect the company, negatively, in deal making in the short team before the current Board and management get their own feet.
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
Ericsson
#58 Posted : Monday, November 15, 2021 11:45:48 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,078
Location: NAIROBI
Angelica _ann wrote:
We should also not forget that major (most/majoritysmile )deals at Centum was done under the guidance and direction of CK, which is no more. This will affect the company, negatively, in deal making in the short team before the current Board and management get their own feet.


The current board doesn't have skin in the game.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
guka
#59 Posted : Tuesday, November 16, 2021 8:09:00 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 2/26/2018
Posts: 17
I was also concerned about the exposure though the nature of the letter to me seems to have terminology that reeks of sensationalism. i.e

"As you do your review, take note of the aggressive valuation of the (sur)real estate portfolio, that has allowed management to incur debt beyond the Company’s sustainable ability to repay."

This is the other piece I do not seem to understand.
"In your review, you will also discover that the Company’s investment model is not appropriate for a publicly-traded company where a large number of its shares are held by small scale investors."

I thought small scale investors are in the minority or am I missing something here? Also the Kevin Spacey part! Not sure if this is a real whistleblower letter or parody.

Also the piece about 'luck-driven' Vipingo sales
mv_ufanisi
#60 Posted : Tuesday, November 16, 2021 8:59:10 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/15/2010
Posts: 614
Centum's management has been discussed severally here in Wazua. Basically this is a classic case of a company for the benefit of management in stead of shareholders.
It's a classic agency problem.
Very similar to how trustees of Njenga Karume's estate enriched themselves while the beneficiaries were left suffering. Very similar to how some Kenya government employees use their position to profit from the state by inflating prices and receiving kickbacks.
Not too long ago, Centum was the billion shilling bonus company. Shareholders have had massive erosion of value since then and ofcourse the management will not return the billions in bonuses they've received in the meantime.
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