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UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson
madhaquer
#61 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2020 8:21:37 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/10/2010
Posts: 253
Location: Nairobi
radiomast wrote:
madhaquer wrote:


In fact apart from Kenya, it is only in South Africa, Zimbabwe and Namibia where there were actual settler communities. (immigrants who moved in with no intent of ever going back home). In all those countries, independence was delayed.

What is most despicable is that in Kenya power was handed over to the loyalists and not the actual freedom fighters. It is from here that the rot in the government and it's institutions like the judiciary and police force were actually inherited.


I actually agree with you that our first set of leaders were the biggest disappointment. They set Kenya on the wrong path.

Which is why I said that on balance, it might have been better if Independence was delayed until Mwafrika understood how to govern for the people.

The first set of leaders created a culture where people in power governed for themselves and their immediate famililes. Not for the people. Thats why today you see the grandchildren of Mbiyu Koinange fighting over an inheritance worth Ksh 14 Billion.

It would be much better if these billions were used for the betterment of Kenya e.g. building roads, hospitals etc. We have threads on wazua of people decrying the state of Kenyatta hospital and the poor state of roads and traffic.

It is precisely because our country ingrained a culture of looting. Everyone who assumes a leadership position goes in with the mentality that they have to loot as much as possible. Even people who are already wealthy like Kidero and Sonko.


If Mzungu had stayed longer, Kenya would have suffered apartheid and a wealth gap worse than SA.

What you may not seem to understand is that those who collaborated got privileges like jobs (Chiefs, headmen, soldiers) land ownership, authority to grow cash crops and other opportunities for their kin.
This is what fundamentally explains the wealth gap between the Who's Who in Kenya and the masses. (The Kiereini, Njonjos, Muhoya, Mathangani, Njiiri, Wambugu, Koinanges ... families of senior chiefs who were part of the colonial administration and moved on to form the ruling elite post independence).
This people didn't live in colonial villages infact at some point, the villagers were laboring in their farms for free. The Mzungu had mastered how to divide and rule.

The settlers did not expect to ever leave and the loyalists were taking their side and enjoying the spoils.
sqft
#62 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2020 10:12:49 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/10/2015
Posts: 502
Location: Kenya
How the British stole New Zealand from the indigenous maori people. This is what the invading british had also planned for kenya. Good thing that our freedom fighters stopped the british and and kicked them out.


What money can't do, more money can do.
masukuma
#63 Posted : Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:11:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,521
Location: Nairobi
sqft wrote:
How the British stole New Zealand from the indigenous maori people. This is what the invading british had also planned for kenya. Good thing that our freedom fighters stopped the british and and kicked them out.



Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly nimecheka yangu yote!!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
sqft
#64 Posted : Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:53:33 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/10/2015
Posts: 502
Location: Kenya
masukuma wrote:
sqft wrote:
How the British stole New Zealand from the indigenous maori people. This is what the invading british had also planned for kenya. Good thing that our freedom fighters stopped the british and and kicked them out.



Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly nimecheka yangu yote!!


Fact is that the maori signed treaties with the british thinking they were leasing land to the british for a limited period of time, but little did they know that the translated document (english version) was different and gave the brits absolute transfer of the land. If the maori had an uprising after realizing that they had been conned, a violent uprising like the mau mau where european settlement on stolen land was made risky/suicidal, then they may have gotten their land back, and New Zealand would be today a maori country and not a white man's stolen land.

The modus operandi of the white man during colonization was always the same, i.e., go to some distant lands, cause trouble, shoot several people with your superior weapons, then negotiate for a ceasefire, aka treaty with the locals, which includes the locals surrendering part of their land, then once settled on an area cause more and more trouble so as to get more and more land until the whole country is colonized.
What money can't do, more money can do.
radiomast
#65 Posted : Tuesday, February 25, 2020 10:27:45 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 358
madhaquer wrote:



If Mzungu had stayed longer, Kenya would have suffered apartheid and a wealth gap worse than SA.

What you may not seem to understand is that those who collaborated got privileges like jobs (Chiefs, headmen, soldiers) land ownership, authority to grow cash crops and other opportunities for their kin.
This is what fundamentally explains the wealth gap between the Who's Who in Kenya and the masses. (The Kiereini, Njonjos, Muhoya, Mathangani, Njiiri, Wambugu, Koinanges ... families of senior chiefs who were part of the colonial administration and moved on to form the ruling elite post independence).
This people didn't live in colonial villages infact at some point, the villagers were laboring in their farms for free. The Mzungu had mastered how to divide and rule.

The settlers did not expect to ever leave and the loyalists were taking their side and enjoying the spoils.


The British people were far more progressive than the Makaburu of South Africa. Whereas the South African Boers went out of their way to deny Mwafrika basic rights like education and even health, the British gradually became keen on actually keen on educating the African and giving him the ability to govern. Basically they went Kenya to become part of the British empire and still give native Kenyans an opportunity to assume leadership roles.

As I have pointed out above, by the late 1950s, some Kenyans were already getting senior government positions. For example, former police commissioner Barnard Njinu was already a Police Inspector by 1951.

I personally have relatives who were sent to the UK to study 2 year courses to enable them to be competent in their respective fields. The original cadre of senior military and police officers all went to the UK for courses.

Rather than South Africa, I think Kenya would be like the other British territories I mentioned above e.g. Bermuda, Montsserat and so forth.

Mkoloni was not good. But Mwafrika has been worse. Kenyans have suffered a lot more under Mwafrika than they did under Mbeberu.

Psychologically, it is very debilitating to live in a country where the leaders loot the treasury with impunity then anybody opposes them, is branded a traitor, thrown in detention or assassinated. Its worse than living under colonial rule.
Kusadikika
#66 Posted : Wednesday, February 26, 2020 12:25:31 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 2,669
One of the biggest mistakes Kenyans make when discussing the period before independence is to talk of Colonialists or Wabeberu as if it was one group of people who came from one place.

Kenya had different groups of wazungu and they all never got along. There were settler farmers who even amongst themselves were divided. When Kenya was a colony Britain had an Empire which included Britain, Canada (Until 1931) India, South Africa and many other countries. Australia had only recently got independence in 1901 and New Zealand in 1907. The settlers came from all over the Empire. Most were from Britain but there was a significant population from South Africa, Boers who never spoke English who settled in Uasin Ngishu and Trans Nzoia. There were also people from New Zealand and Australia, I have read about there being an American as well.

Settlement began in 1902 and most of the early settlers were adventurer businessmen and people with money. Most notable being Lord Delamere who came to settle in 1901 and akina Ewart Grogan. These settlers were actually an afterthought. Britain had built an expensive railway and they were looking for ways to pay for it. Settlement along the railway line and establishment of economic activity seemed like a good idea. Delamere was the most influential. He bankrupted his whole fortune in the UK in his enterprise in Kenya. He was heir to a great deal of old money that included an estate that measured 6,000 acres in England. Aliuza yote ikakwisha in his Kenyan adventure. He would convince people to come settle in Kenya and come become farmers growing coffee, maize, rearing cows for beef, pigs etc. Up until 1918 most people did not want to come and the few who did most had no money, did not know how to farm and many actually went bankrupt. Someone correct me but I believe the minimum land one could get allocated was one square mile which is equal to 640 acres. So they were scattered all along the railway line in very remote places with no money to bring equipment to farm or money to pay for labor until some genius came up with a brilliant idea.

One of the unintended effect of the Railway line restriction of movement and establishment of peace, introduction of medicine and explosion f population. The Kikuyus used to fight with the Maasai all the time. So warriors were always needed and they were always engaged. When there is peace warriors stay at home and make babies. Soon there was a population explosion in Kikuyu land. The land that the Kikuyu used to flow over to in Kiambu which was originally Ndorobo land was part of what had been taken. So the brilliant idea for the wazungus was to bring in Kikuyus as labor. But that is not what they told them. They told them that they are taking them to a place where they will give them a place to farm. They will give them a githaka where a man and his wife can clear a bush and grow their own fod keep his livestock and prosper. In exchange they can do some little work for the mzungu some few days a week. Kikuyus were so happy they moved in their thousands. Soon the Ruguru Kikuyus were the envy of their Central Kikuyus. They had so much land to farm, had so many goats and could marry many wives. Girls also wanted to be married by rich guys in the settler farms. These were the original squartters.

In 1918 the first world war ended and the settler population changed. A new wave of settlers came. This new wave was ex military officers who were being given a piece of the empire as a gift for their bravery in war. These were among the more useless wazungus who had no skills, always wanted serikali to saidia and felt entitled to things.

I am jumping here kidogo but there was another group that also came after the second world war in 1945. Even more useless and dependent on government. These last group that arrived in 1946 were given leases for 44 years and were assured that they would always be under the protection of the British Government. If there was to be a lot of negotiation tungepata Uhuru 1990.
madhaquer
#67 Posted : Monday, March 02, 2020 11:15:25 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/10/2010
Posts: 253
Location: Nairobi
radiomast wrote:
madhaquer wrote:



If Mzungu had stayed longer, Kenya would have suffered apartheid and a wealth gap worse than SA.

What you may not seem to understand is that those who collaborated got privileges like jobs (Chiefs, headmen, soldiers) land ownership, authority to grow cash crops and other opportunities for their kin.
This is what fundamentally explains the wealth gap between the Who's Who in Kenya and the masses. (The Kiereini, Njonjos, Muhoya, Mathangani, Njiiri, Wambugu, Koinanges ... families of senior chiefs who were part of the colonial administration and moved on to form the ruling elite post independence).
This people didn't live in colonial villages infact at some point, the villagers were laboring in their farms for free. The Mzungu had mastered how to divide and rule.

The settlers did not expect to ever leave and the loyalists were taking their side and enjoying the spoils.


The British people were far more progressive than the Makaburu of South Africa. Whereas the South African Boers went out of their way to deny Mwafrika basic rights like education and even health, the British gradually became keen on actually keen on educating the African and giving him the ability to govern. Basically they went Kenya to become part of the British empire and still give native Kenyans an opportunity to assume leadership roles.

As I have pointed out above, by the late 1950s, some Kenyans were already getting senior government positions. For example, former police commissioner Barnard Njinu was already a Police Inspector by 1951.

I personally have relatives who were sent to the UK to study 2 year courses to enable them to be competent in their respective fields. The original cadre of senior military and police officers all went to the UK for courses.

Rather than South Africa, I think Kenya would be like the other British territories I mentioned above e.g. Bermuda, Montsserat and so forth.

Mkoloni was not good. But Mwafrika has been worse. Kenyans have suffered a lot more under Mwafrika than they did under Mbeberu.

Psychologically, it is very debilitating to live in a country where the leaders loot the treasury with impunity then anybody opposes them, is branded a traitor, thrown in detention or assassinated. Its worse than living under colonial rule.


You really need to get a handle on the timeline of events... by 1918 people like Harry Thuku were working as clerks in the government. Education was accepted wholeheartedly when the missionaries started out.. It was when greed for land, over taxation and forced labor took over that things started to turn south. Any kind of dissent was met with force.

Because a handful of people (mainly loyalists) went to Europe for further studies, we cannot claim that the imperialists were any good...
Those Mwafrika you are referring too by the way are mostly former loyalists. Those looting the treasury are the kin of those loyalists.. People like Njinu were Terence Gavaghan's lap dogs and that is how they ended up in senior government positions, going ahead to sanction and continue with atrocities like wagalla massacre post independence.

It's no wonder the culture of the Kenya Police force and a large part of government is still colonial. Going by their actions, it seem like to them, they are doing the masses a favor.

If you are disappointed by the looting in government, you only need to look at it's history and roots to realize that they never set out to work for the good of the country in the first place.

Granted, independence was hurried after the wind of change speech but power in Kenya was handed over to loyalists who had been handpicked not for competence or merit but for towing the line of their colonial masters.
masukuma
#68 Posted : Sunday, March 15, 2020 1:02:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,521
Location: Nairobi
After the world war Europe was giving out independence like candy on Haloween!! In some places like Zim - the mzungus in the country declared independence from the Mzungus in Europe. Even SA had independence in 1910. Just because you are "independent" does not mean you are free of the Mzungu. Austrlia, New Zealand, Canada, USA all got 'independence/dominion' from the "Mkoloni".
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
ngapat
#69 Posted : Saturday, March 28, 2020 1:08:14 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/11/2006
Posts: 851
Boris tests positive for covid-19
“Invest in yourself. Your career is the engine of your wealth.”
Sober
#70 Posted : Thursday, April 09, 2020 11:12:36 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/27/2007
Posts: 3,604
ngapat wrote:
Boris tests positive for covid-19

Any update on how the gentleman is doing under intensive care?
African parents don't know how to say sorry.. the closest you will get to a sorry is a 'have you eaten'
Impunity
#71 Posted : Friday, April 10, 2020 3:29:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,252
Location: Masada
Sober wrote:
ngapat wrote:
Boris tests positive for covid-19

Any update on how the gentleman is doing under intensive care?


Doing much better now.
He can sit on the ICU bed alone without help and he is in "extremely fabulous mood"...whatever that mood is.
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

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